Dartblog Strikes Back!

Sunday, August 29, 2010

Exercising the right to alumni/ae free speech that this blog welcomes but which his blog strictly prohibits, Dartblog's author takes issue with criticism directed at him by yours truly as follows:

John Mathias,

Rather than spending your time reading the College's press releases, you might learn something from talking to faculty and students in Hanover. All is not well there.

As to my writing program, I would be happy to send you the evaluations authored in the name of all of the professors of the Art History, Religion and Math departments. They do not refer to the nine-year DEP program as "crackpot"; au contraire, it was effective, innovative and popular.

Why don't you take some time to put forward even a single substantive criticism of Dartblog's content - rather than just voicing generalized personal smears. If Dartblog were so inaccurate, it would not have the readership that it commands.

Finally, if you want to counter Dartblog, set up a "Not-Dartblog" blog and let's see how many readers you get. This is the meaning of free speech and I am not restraining you from doing so in any way at all. Just the opposite: I am sure your views would be entertaining to many people; sadly they don't measure up to what we are looking for on Dartblog.

In the meantime, keep reading, and please tell as many people as you can how awful Dartblog is. People want to hear your opinion.

Joe Asch '79
8/26/2010 12:53 AM

There you have it. His views deserve airing here, but mine ("sadly") do not measure up to what they are looking for on Dartblog. I might be offended if I were not in such good company with the entire remaining alumni/ae body, none of whose views he will permit as comments to his almost daily inflammatory anti-administration posts.

Mr. Asch can dish it out, but he just can't take it.

For those who may be interested in more information on the demise of his "Dartmouth Editing Program" (DEP), by which Mr. Asch proposed that Dartmouth hire high school teachers to tutor English writing skills to Dartmouth minority students, click here to see how The Dartmouth reported on it in May of 2007. You will see that Carol Folt, then Dean of the Faculty, stated as follows: "The faculty determines the curriculum at Dartmouth, and their recommendations for supporting writing at Dartmouth did not include continuing the DEP." You will also see that Mr. Asch had a heated confrontation with the student leadership of both the Afro American Society and the Native Americans at Dartmouth, who took issue with what they saw as his crassly political motives. He then did to them what he has consistently done to others who have disagreed with him over the years: He publicly accused the Afro Amercan Society President of lying the week before his graduation. Nice.

By this thread, I am taking Mr. Asch up on his suggestion that I provide a "Not-Dartblog" option to anyone who would like to speak freely in comment upon any Dartblog posts or to be critical of me. I particularly welcome the usual suspects, whom I encourage to speak out as often as they like. Free speech is a good thing, and our fellow alums are very good at making their own judgments based upon what they hear.

John Mathias

74 Comments:

John: My understanding is that the DEP program was successful and supported by the faculty in several departments for years before it was suggested that it be applied in areas specific to minority students. Yet this is the second time you have trashed it, in particular implying it was weak because the program employed high school teachers. You imply they are unqualified and thereby demean them along with the DEP program.

Who better to teach remedial writing to help individuals who are not yet at a college-level of competency in writing, especially if the teachers are from the Hanover and Lebanon schools that have great college-prepatory programs? Why do you feel high school teachers are incapable of teaching college-preparatory writing?

DartBlog (actually Joe Asch) responded to your criticism. In what way did it (or he) "strike back" at you?

Finally, in a prior thread, our colleague DartBored labeled this blog as "yours". I am guessing you take umbrage at that, believing instead that it really belongs to all alumni the Association represents. And you repeatedly mention the free speech supported here.

With that in mind, why not modify this blog's controls so that any alum may initiate new discussion threads that they feel may be of interest to others. I am curious if you can give a good reason for not doing so.

By Tim Dreisbach '71, at 8/30/2010 9:38 AM
As David Gale has pointed out, the signal-to-noise ratio in the comments section of blogs is so low that they are not worth having. John Mathias has given us an excellent example above of that fact.

John is an advocate, and in this instance not a very good one. Before a judge, or any critical audience for that matter, a lawyer should at least give the impression of thoughtful objectivity; John has not met that test.

But don’t take my word for it, please. Simply review the data at the below web site – particularly the reviews of the DEP program by all of the faculty members of the departments of Religion, Art History and Mathematics – and see for yourself if the reality of the DEP program concords with John Mathias’s sneering and angry description.

http://www.dartblog.com/data/2009/08/009119.php

I wish all eight followers of this blog an enjoyable read.

By Joseph, at 8/30/2010 11:27 AM
Through Joseph’s link above, I just reviewed the comments on the DEP program made by many members of the Dartmouth faculty, regarding its impact on the course offerings in their departments. They made for interesting reading. Perhaps we can have a discussion on why members of this distinguished group are supportive of such a crackpot plan.

By Tim Dreisbach '71, at 8/30/2010 8:14 PM
OK Let's "get" Joseph Asch. How about if John puts up a full copy here of any one of the recent DartBlog posts and then lets people comment. (I do not believe such an attributed copying would be a problem.) Groundrule: The title of the thread needs to be the same as the original piece, any one of:

The Surprising Truth about What Motivates Us

Defining John Sloan Dickey's "World"

The Rise of the Econs

Wine-Searcher.com

When They get it Riight: The HP-12C

When in Parkhurst, Have an Expresso
(DartBored agrees; I hope he elaborates!)

Dartmouth Cuts its Retiree Death Benefit

The President of Dartmouth should not care about Global Health

Adios Minary

Sex Advice: Unbelievable as Usual

The Union Crumbles

The Kim's: Good Help is Hard to Find

All the President's Air Conditioning

Unable to Sustain Sustainability

D-Day's Bagpiper Bill Millin R.I.P.

By Tim Dreisbach '71, at 9/01/2010 6:08 AM
Most of what I post here and elsewhere is aimed at making a mockery of the state of alumni relations at Dartmouth. Let me say something a bit more serious for once:

“Alumni Leadership”, of which John Mathias is a prominent member, holds firmly to the principle that it is un-Dartmouth for alumni to engage in any conversation that could be seen as critical of the College. Lots of name-calling and irrelevant discussion follows from this situation.

American colleges have many problems. Dartmouth is not unique. In most ways Dartmouth just follows the trends. Some alumni would like to see Dartmouth do better and believe that some criticism is healthy. “Alumni Leadership” resists.

“Alumni Leadership” works very hard on a variety of activities. Several meetings are held each year in Hanover. Most of this activity falls into the same category as running church suppers.

I would like to suggest that one of our “Alumni Leadership” groups, perhaps the Alumni Council, try something different at its next meeting. How about if Alumni Councilors were required to get informed about some of the issues facing higher education? Maybe they could be asked to read a book like Crisis on Campus by Mark Taylor. Then they could come to Hanover and discuss the issues. They shouldn’t feel obligated to make any recommendations to the College. They should just have the discussion and report back to the alumni they represent.

Maybe something like this would be a step toward finding some “common ground” among alumni.

By DartBored, at 9/01/2010 9:10 AM
How about if John Mathias starts by apologizing to Iona McAulay, Nancy Leavitt-Reibel and Jane Whittington, the three DEP editors who did exceptionally good work with a total of over 2000 Dartmouth students between 1998 and 2007.

These devoted teachers did a great deal to help students' writing, and each and every faculty member in their respective departments (Art History, Religion, and Mathematics) recognized their skill and was grateful for their efforts.

John's intemperate remarks show why comments sections on blogs are of little value. Bloggers should not have to waste their time responding to comments from, to use John's favorite word, crackpots, who don't do their research and don't argue in good faith.

Joe Asch '79

By Joseph, at 9/01/2010 9:22 AM
DartBored: Thank you for taking this in a constructive direction. The WSJ has just published a review of Taylor's book. It is the most recent of several interesting books on higher education, interestingly authored in several cases by individuals whose views come from observations at Ivy League institutions.

John: You have been looking for common ground. DartBored's suggestion for a Council session focused on such issues is an excellent one; a followup report to all alumni might serve as catalyst for alums in general to rally behind Dartmouth taking a lead position in advancing post-secondary education to higher ground. How about working with other members of the "leadership" to set this in motion?

In the interim, I am interested in the thoughts of DartBored and others on how the issues raised in these works do, or do not, apply to Dartmouth.

By Tim Dreisbach '71, at 9/01/2010 4:38 PM
There is a fundamental difference between John Mathias's view of the Association (and, most unfortunately, the growing numbers of alumni who equate loyalty with giving to the Alumni Fund) and that of the alumni who founded the AoA and believed it the duty of "each and every" alumnus to take a direct interest in oversight of the College. The Mathias view is that the AoA (and the Council it fawningly follows)are inherently ancillary organizations. Some of us don't agree, and think that such ignorant amening works to the detriment of education--not only at Dartmouth but at all colleges.

Here's a bold idea for the AoA, or the Council: Claudia Dreifus and Andrew HAcker (who spoke at Great Issues to the Class of 1958)have just written a book, Higher Education? Dreifus works for the NY Times and teaches journalism at Columbia; Hacker, her partner, teaches at Queens College. I have not read the book, but the topic interests me.(Indeed, I have been making notes for just such a study for years.) I have exchanged emails with Dreifus and their agent to inquire about an appearance in Hanover.They would be willing to come. I would be happy to pass on an invitation, but we can't expect them to do this for charity. Shall I enquire to find out how much it would take? What is the ceiling price?

By Tom Paine, at 9/01/2010 6:32 PM
There is a fundamental difference between John Mathias's view of the Association (and, most unfortunately, the growing numbers of alumni who equate loyalty with giving to the Alumni Fund) and that of the alumni who founded the AoA and believed it the duty of "each and every" alumnus to take a direct interest in oversight of the College. The Mathias view is that the AoA (and the Council it fawningly follows)are inherently ancillary organizations. Some of us don't agree, and think that such ignorant amening works to the detriment of education--not only at Dartmouth but at all colleges.

Here's a bold idea for the AoA, or the Council: Claudia Dreifus and Andrew HAcker (who spoke at Great Issues to the Class of 1958)have just written a book, Higher Education? Dreifus works for the NY Times and teaches journalism at Columbia; Hacker, her partner, teaches at Queens College. I have not read the book, but the topic interests me.(Indeed, I have been making notes for just such a study for years.) I have exchanged emails with Dreifus and their agent to inquire about an appearance in Hanover.They would be willing to come. I would be happy to pass on an invitation, but we can't expect them to do this for charity. Shall I enquire to find out how much it would take? What is the ceiling price?

By Tom Paine, at 9/01/2010 6:33 PM
How about if alumni comment on another of the terribly critical DartBlog articles by Joseph A?

He recently reports:

"Currently the College is advertising an opening for a Cook Helper. This union position is a Job Grade A category posting, meaning that after a year it will pay $15.82/hour ($33,905/year). In addition, Dartmouth will contribute an additional 10% of that amount into the worker’s pension fund. The College offers full health insurance for the worker’s entire family for only a modest contribution. And the worker, after being on staff for one year, will receive 15 days of paid vacation, 11 days of paid personal leave, and four days of break between Xmas and New Year’s (that’s a total of 30 days of paid time off: six weeks)...

"Now let’s look at what a Cook Helper might make at a local restaurant. A quick canvas of several local eateries reveals that employees with similar responsibilities would receive only $10-13/hour ($20,800-$27,040/year); after 6-12 months on the job they would receive about a 50% contribution to their personal health insurance (and nothing for their families); they would get absolutely no pension contribution; and after their first year of employment they would earn 7-10 vacation days (one and a half to two weeks)."

My observation... this is not so much a comment on the Administration's direct spending as on the quality of its negotiations with the local SEIU. The College cannot pay less, down to the level of the fair market wage, because this is apparently the lowest rung on the contractual union payscale.

But the above is small potatoes... how about having alumni, and the Council, address bigger educational issues as per DartBored's suggestion? I am awaiting a response from my own classes' Councilor.

By Tim Dreisbach '71, at 9/02/2010 7:10 AM
John Mathias:

I predict that David Spaulding will veto my suggestion. His strategy has been to hunker down and weather this (annoyance) out. But please check with Tom Peisch. As the Council president, it should be his call. They will be planning the agenda soon.

Have you thought about a Twitter account to communicate with younger alumni?

By DartBored, at 9/03/2010 9:08 PM
To Tom Paine's suggestion:

(Regulars know this is Frank Gado's penname.)

The current issue of well-respected magazine The Economist has an article on American education that prominently mentions Dreifus and Hacker.

Wait. Wasn't Frank the intermediary for the conservative cabal financing the lawsuit to rest control over Dartmouth? What is he doing associating with liberals from Columbia University?

Perhaps it is time for alumni generally to recognize the concerns behind all the divisive alumni debate are not over coeducation or the football team, but rather over the same issues raised by Harvard’s Dean of the College, Harvard’s President,Yale Law’s Dean, and Trinity’s President.

Higher education, of which Dartmouth is both a leader and a follower, has its problems in part because of entrenched incumbencies. If by definition, positive change must come from outside forces, who better than alumni.

Both DartBored's and Paine/Gado's suggestions are good ones.

By Tim Dreisbach '71, at 9/05/2010 8:39 AM
I don't get it. Rather than taking a long-awaited opportunity to trash me for my shameless distortions and pathological lying, alumni have actually used this space to raise valid intellectual points about the College and the dialogue that the Alumni Council might have with concerned alumni.

John Mathias, where are you when we need you?

By Joseph, at 9/05/2010 3:31 PM
This comment has been removed by the author.

By Tim Dreisbach '71, at 9/05/2010 4:40 PM
This comment has been removed by the author.

By DartBored, at 9/05/2010 7:32 PM
I deleted my last comment. We don't need to go there yet. But I know that all comments are immediately forwarded to many members of "Alumni Leadership".

It is time for answers.

By DartBored, at 9/05/2010 8:54 PM
Ditto

By Tim Dreisbach '71, at 9/06/2010 6:03 AM
Mr. Asch's latest salvos against President Kim and Provost Carol Folt reveal just how deeply his personal bias is against both of them. He really doesn't like anyone who gets in his way or disagrees with him, and he doesn't hesitate to attack without giving any opportunity of response. That's just the way he operates.

It was particularly amusing to read his criticism of how President Kim and Partners in Health responded to the Haitian earthquake catastrophe.

I repeat, Dartblog has become a cheap gossip column run by a senior alumnus with a grudge. There are no facts presented--just the author's self-pretentious opinions and references to things he has supposedly heard from others (i.e., rumors).

This blog welcomes free speech by alumni/ae. Mr. Asch expresses himself freely here, especially in his criticism of yours truly, which is certainly his prerogative. But he absolutely refuses to give anyone whose reputations he attacks the same opportunity at Dartblog. Instead, he persists in running it into the ground.

By John Mathias, at 9/08/2010 7:04 PM
John has been assigned to lead us in circles. I'm outta here.

There are other ways to skin this cat.

By DartBored, at 9/08/2010 8:43 PM
...and here is what I deleted the other day:

Tim: You are being far too understanding. "Alumni Leadership's" stonewalling is willful. The game is to play along with the status quo so their kids get in. Take a look around.

The side benefit is that if one of their kids doesn't get the course he wants or the dorm she wants or doesn't get enough playing time or has a conflict between LSA and pre-season training, the fix is just a phone call away.

By DartBored, at 9/08/2010 8:46 PM
John M:
Amazing. Unfriggin' unbelievably amazing. From your position of leadership, you have ignored the serious discussions attempted to be initiated above, instead continuing your relentless personal attacks. You are guilty of exactly the same charges you level against Joe Asch.

Leave poor Joseph alone for a while. How about answering the questions you have avoided to date:

1. Why not make it easier for alumni candidates to run for office without being dependent on College or outside sources of support, ala David Gale's proposals?

2. Why not personally (not via emails from surrogates) contact the HI and UnDying if you want to see if there is any common ground there?

3. Why not ask Tom Peisch about having a Council meeting focused on higher education ala the Taylor book, per DartBored suggestion?

4. Why not initiate a contact with Frank Gado to invite Dreifus and Hacker to speak with Dartmouth alumni? The outcome might be a coming-together among alumni as catalyst and encouragement for a leadership role by Dartmouth in addressing the challenges of higher-education in America.

5. Why not open THIS blog to alumni themselves to initiate new discussion threads on topics of their choosing?

Your last nasty post about DartBlog, answering none of the above open questions, is a testament to the quality of the current leadership.

DartBored: You are right about going around in circles; this dog is done hunting his own tail. You were wrong when you said you felt a need to mock alumni relations; they have made a mockery of it without the need for any assistance. Let the rest of us know how we can help you skin the cat some other way.

By Tim Dreisbach '71, at 9/08/2010 10:26 PM
John Mathias,

After reading the faculty reviews of the Departmental Editing Program, do you still believe that it was a "crackpot" idea? On what information did you base this determination? Do you still believe that information now that you have seen real faculty appraisals of the program (which were on my campaign website).

Joe Asch '79

By Joseph, at 9/10/2010 8:44 AM
Joe Asch:

On August 16 I wrote:

Ever since Carol Folt refused several years ago to go along with his ridiculous proposal that Dartmouth College take over funding his crackpot plan to have high school teachers tutor English writing skills to minority students, it is no secret in Hanover that Dartblog's author has done everything in his power to malign her.

The crackpot aspect of your plan was its focus upon minority students, and it earned you the completely justifiable outrage expressed by leaders of the Afro American Society and the Native Americans at Dartmouth, who called you out for what they rightly perceived as a crass political stunt. It was perhaps your own Larry Summers moment.

My reason for raising this issue is simply to expose your longstanding bias against now Provost Folt for delivering to you the message that Dartmouth's faculty did not support adding your program to its curriculum. Many of us still remember your behavior following this decision as well, when you openly accused Dartmouth's administration of retaliating against you for your support of petition trustee candidates. When you malign Provost Folt and others on Dartblog, readers have a right to know the full background.

You have a right to say whatever you want on either Dartblog or this blog. I have no quarrel with that at all. My issue concerns your dogged refusal to allow anyone to comment upon or otherwise respond to your frequent inflammatory posts on Dartblog.

To other readers:

Joe Asch is the only one of my critics here whom I have actually met. In person, I find him to be thoughtful, reasonable, and an overall decent guy. I regret our crossing swords as we both stand our ground, and I still hold out hope for reasoned conciliation.

By John Mathias, at 9/10/2010 11:59 AM
John:

First of all, you've met all of us. Second, we are not your critics. With all due respect, we don't care about you. We assume that you are just acting upon the orders of the Alumni Relations Office. We understand its strategy.

While you "cross swords" with Joe Asch, many important questions remain unaddressed. Just say "it's not my job" and we'll clear out of here.

You could end your participation in this ordeal by declaring that you do not believe that alumni should be involved in any way with College affairs and that, even if there are problems with the College, it is up to the administration and the trustees alone to deal with them.

Say it, please.

By DartBored, at 9/10/2010 7:59 PM
John Mathias,

My, how little research you do. My DEP program was cancelled by Dean Folt despite its evident success and its cost-free status to the College. Why? Because the Wright/Folt team silenced its critics in any way that it could. The three departments where the Editors worked supported DEP unanimously – as you have seen from their letters – and the faculty never voted on it, ever, despite Dean Folt’s posturing. In fact, DEP was never discussed in a faculty meeting. Welcome to the inside world of Dartmouth beyond the press releases.

As for my effort to move DEP to other areas, I was taking a class at the College in African-American literature at the time and several black students mentioned to me that the Cutter-Shabazz Learning Center had never been properly staffed as the College had often promised. Cutter-Shabazz has two offices for academic advisors. I tried to place two of my editors there (Note: they were costing me about $35k/year each).

The student leaders of both the Afro-Am and NAD wanted this assistance, but they told me to my face, and in the presence of my wife, that they were afraid that the administration would take away their funding if they worked with me. I confirmed this statement to the head of the Afro-Am in a follow-up letter. The Afro-Am head later denied the statement, but I'll swear to you, and so will my wife, that he and the head of NAD were explicitly clear on this point.

The reason that you are held in disdain by so many in the alumni world is that you don't even make a pretense of objectivity. Many people who voted against me in the Trustee election praised the DEP program. It was an effective innovation in the departments of Art History, Religion and Math, and it would have been equally valuable for students in the Afro-Am and NAD.

For you to call my effort to keep dedicated editors employed at the College in aid of minority students "a crass political stunt" is sad. Do you think that you are convincing anyone with this kind of wild, unfounded accusation?

Each time that you put something up on this thread, you further make my case why there is no need for a comments section on Dartblog. Thousands of people regularly come to that site to read thoughts that are backed up by linked-to research and opinions derived from faculty and staff who are afraid to express themselves in Carol Folt’s Hanover. Why would I want to give room to your screeds that attract nobody’s attention in this blog?

Joe Asch ‘79

By Joseph, at 9/11/2010 2:20 AM
DartBored and Joe A. are "all in".

Does John raise or call? No more bluffing.

By Tim Dreisbach '71, at 9/12/2010 9:07 PM
Has anyone heard anything about what the Alumni Council Nominating Committee is looking for in candidates for the next trustee election? Is the committee required to choose alumni only?

By DartBored, at 9/16/2010 8:18 PM
This comment has been removed by the author.

By DartBored, at 9/16/2010 8:18 PM
This comment has been removed by the author.

By Tim Dreisbach '71, at 9/19/2010 10:58 AM
DartBored:

I do not have the AoA constitution in front of me, but believe it requires that alumni trustee candidates be alumni chosen by alumni. I would favor an amendment that allows alumni to nominate and elect whomever they deem most qualified, regardless of where the individual received their own degree. It is the collective alumni voice that matters.

The interesting question is whether or not the Council nominating committee will provide alumni a choice in the absence of petition candidates, nominating two per opening and risking a 3-way race if a petitioner appears. Under the old approval voting rules, votes for the nominated candidates would not necessarily have been split, but this is now assured under the new rules. Or will they nominate only one per opening and insure a meaningless election in the absence of a petitioner. We may finally find out if alumni prefer the positives inherent in discussions that elections generate over the silenced unity when there is no debate.

By Tim Dreisbach '71, at 9/19/2010 5:16 PM
They will nominate two candidates per opening next time because they don't expect petitioners. If a petition candidate emerges, one of the two AC-nominated candidates will, by prior agreement, withdraw from the race.

By DartBored, at 9/19/2010 8:09 PM
This implies there is little to differentiate one nominated candidate from another. What real choice are they giving alumni?

By Tim Dreisbach '71, at 9/20/2010 9:07 AM
Why do you think anyone cares about giving the alumni a "real choice"? I thought it was just a ceremony.

By DartBored, at 9/20/2010 1:14 PM
Ceremony aside, only one candidate is needed for each opening. After all, the trustee governance committee has already provided the report that "more" elections are undesirable. So why should any be?

Imagine trying to explain the nomination pre-conditions to the potential drop-out #2 candidate. Talk about churn-and-burn... this is plain burn-without-churn.

By Tim Dreisbach '71, at 9/20/2010 1:26 PM
from Judge Nathaniel Niles (colleague of Daniel Webster on Dartmouth College Case, Honorary Doctorate and Dartmouth Trustee)...

We now know who Mathias really is. It is time to seriously consider those candidates for trustee suggested by Joe Asch.

By Susan, at 9/21/2010 4:29 PM
As this thread has much regarding writing at Dartmouth:

President Jim Yong Kim recently said, "Among the many things I have learned from the Dartmouth faculty, one of the most significant lessons is that the ability to write clearly, effectively, and creatively may very well be the most important skill you will be taught in your time here." He also noted the value of study in the humanities, observing that his own undergraduate education (at Brown University) suffered by lacking this.

Chalk up one (or two) for liberal arts colleges over research universities for undergraduate education.

By Tim Dreisbach '71, at 9/23/2010 8:08 PM
From the Alumni Council:

"The Dartmouth College Alumni Council has voted to designate one candidate to seek nomination for each of two vacant alumni-nominated trustee seats. The proposed resolution was presented to the eligible alumni councilors for an email vote in early September. It was approved with 85 alumni councilors voting in favor of the resolution and three opposed."

Some like Joseph observe that by offering alumni no choice, the Council is taking democracy out of the process of alumni trustee selection. Pro-Council people will argue that the Council itself is "representative" of all alumni.

While the Council has taken admirable steps to be more in touch with alumni (Thank you Tom Peisch for your recent request for input), it is also the organization that refuses to publicize how "our representatives" vote (who were the 85 yeas above? the 3 nays? who were not present?) And while it "encourages" classes to conduct elections for Council seats open to all alumni members, it continues not to require this in order to seat someone.

It remains an organization that still is essentially self-selected. Love the continuity of those locked-in "leadership arcs", taking a lesson not from our President Kim, but the Kim's of N. Korea.

By Tim Dreisbach '71, at 9/28/2010 5:31 AM
The Alumni Council's next vote should be to cancel the trustee election, if there are no petition candidates. It is not worth the expense in these tough times to hold an election where the candidates are running unopposed. The Association officers can stay in office indefinitely or they too can be appointed by the Alumni Council. I've heard that it costs $60,000 to hold one of these elections. What's the point?

By DartBored, at 9/28/2010 10:26 AM
Judge Nathaniel Niles said...

They want to nominate just one candidate for each position so there won't be any split vote against a possible petition candidate. Again, our strongest stand would be to nominate an excellent candidate (such as those suggested by Asch).

By Susan, at 9/29/2010 4:47 PM
Susan is almost certainly right about the Alumni Council's reason for nominating only one candidate per vacancy rather than two.

Right now, the AoA constitution requires the AC to nominate its candidates two months before the deadline for filing petition candidacies. In my opinion, the consitution should be amended to allow the AC to nominate a second candidate in the event no petition candidate emerges by the deadline.

Amending the constitution, however, is a difficult process requiring a 2/3 majority vote. It would almost certainly need widespread support from all alumni/ae political factions to get this done.

By John Mathias, at 10/01/2010 2:04 PM
Who would be willing to serve as the second choice candidate two months after the first candidate is introduced?

By DartBored, at 10/01/2010 5:10 PM
Amending the constitution, however, is a difficult process requiring a 2/3 majority vote. It would almost certainly need widespread support from all alumni/ae political factions to get this done.

Ha ha ha ha ha ha!!!!!!

That didn't stop the trustees from imposing a new constitution, now did it?

By John, at 10/01/2010 8:06 PM
A better solution: Have all candidates get on the ballot by exactly the same process (including some minimum number of signatured supporters to demonstrate a level of seriousness.) This should apply to someone put forward by the Council, the Hanover Institute, UnDying, the Friends of X, or anyone else. Have them all declare by the same date. And let as many as come forward compete with their ideas for alumni votes. If you fear vote-splitting when more than two people compete, then re-institute approval voting.

But this not only requires a constitutional amendment. It also requires support by the very incumbency who fear such an open forum. Difficult... no, impossible!

By Tim Dreisbach '71, at 10/01/2010 10:13 PM
Did I get the above comment correct? John Mathias is "almost certain" that the alumni council is only willing to offer alumni a choice of differing candidates when they can be assured their primary candidate will not be disadvantaged by their own second choice. This is confirmation of the natural pressures inherent in the current system to favor some candidates (those nominated from the inside) over others outside of the inner-circle (those nominated by petition).

I'm trying to figure out which "please run" pitch is sillier...

"Please run as our number two, but drop out if a petitioner appears, so our number one can win."

vs

"Please run as our number two, because we now know our desired candidate has no outside opposition and we will be embarrassed by a no-choice pseudo-election."

By Tim Dreisbach '71, at 10/01/2010 10:33 PM
Judge Nathaniel Niles said...

Is it getting more and more difficult to locate the up-to-date alum blog??? It seems so for the unsophisticated.

By Susan, at 10/02/2010 12:03 PM
The OAR and its loyal alumni supporters have an unlimited capacity to endure their own absurdity. But they will have the last laugh. Alumni elections of trustees will be gone within ten years - maybe even five.

By DartBored, at 10/02/2010 1:12 PM
If no petition candidate files by the deadline, the Alumni Council would have no difficulty whatsoever fielding a second highly qualified candidate ready and willing to run. The real difficulty is finding highly qualified candidates who are willing to raise or spend a substantial amount of money campaigning in contentious elections with petition candidates who remain steadfast in their opposition to campaign finance reform. If no petition candidate files for a given election, there will be plenty of highly qualified candidates willing to run who would not otherwise be so inclined.

We need a constitutional amendment allowing the Alumni Council to nominate a second candidate if no petition candidate files by the deadline. Under the present circumstances, it is completely unrealistic to expect the Alumni Council to nominate two candidates for one vacancy and thereby split the vote to the advantage of a potential petition candidate.

By John Mathias, at 10/02/2010 8:50 PM
So, the Alumni Council's first candidate will be one who is willing to spend money and the second candidate will be one who is not willing to spend. But both are equally qualified. Now I've got it.

By DartBored, at 10/02/2010 9:51 PM
..."remain steadfast in their opposition to campaign finance reform"...

It is all the petitioners fault? Why haven't we seen serious consideration by the incumbents to the proposals by Mr. Gale, that would open up College-controlled communications channels more fully to all candidates and thus make campaign financing less of a factor?

For all the talk about petitioners having and spending money, and for all Mr. Mathias' talk about reform, methinks those in power like having well-defined opposition (easier to go negative on) and really fear what would happen if the door was truly open to many alternative candidates. The ability to control the discussion would be much harder than at present.

The last constitutional amendment, eliminating approval voting, was just another measure to preserve the two-party system. After all, a two party system with an evil opponent is almost as good as the ultimate one-party unity goal.

By Tim Dreisbach '71, at 10/03/2010 6:08 PM
?that Alpha said...

that Judge Nathaniel Niles said...

The problem with democracy is that people may take it seriously and vote. And yes, with more than two candidates, the opposition candidate has the advantage if there are no real differences between the other two. Of course, if the opposition does not have access to mailing lists, nor to channels of communication, nor to the resources of the insider bureaucracy which is running the election, then petition candidates have a large disadvantage. And of course, insider candidates have a disadvantage when there are more than two splitting the insider vote, if there are no real differences between those two.

But elections with three candidates seem to be democratic, whereas elections with one candidate sounds like a totalitarian situation when it is a large scale organization. On a small scale for a local club or a local town meeting where everyone can gather, then nominations from the floor may work when opposed to the nominated candidate of the nominating committee.

Dartmouth is not a small organization, and democracy may be hard to swallow when you are on the inside convinced that you are right and the opposition is wrong. But the democracy that came with parity on the board of trustees with elected alumni trustees, some of whom were and are petition candidates, has worked through the years to keep Dartmouth an excellent liberal arts college.

By Susan, at 10/03/2010 6:27 PM
that Alpha said...

that Judge Nathaniel Niles said...

Again, it is hard to find the alum assoc blog. It was easy, then difficult, then easy, now again difficult.

However, that is beside the point. The real problem is that we don't get down to the real problems. We keep repeating ourselves and spinning wheels, which is good for the bureaucracy because it keeps us occupied and nothing changes.

By Susan, at 10/04/2010 2:42 PM
that Alpha said...

that Judge Nathaniel Niles said...

Again, it is hard to find the alum assoc blog. It was easy, then difficult, then easy, now again difficult.

However, that is beside the point. The real problem is that we don't get down to the real problems. We keep repeating ourselves and spinning wheels, which is good for the bureaucracy because it keeps us occupied and nothing changes.

By Susan, at 10/04/2010 2:43 PM
Susan: You have it all figured out. Why don't you "run" for Alumni Council? Or maybe you can send your comments to the ALC. Or Tom Peisch. Or even Steve Mandel. Ha,ha,ha.

By DartBored, at 10/04/2010 3:25 PM
that Alpha said...
that Judge Nathaniel Niles said...

As a matter of fact, one of us ran for executive committee of AOA, and one of us served as a Dartmouth trustee. Hard knocks were in store for both of us. And we did learn a few things. Don't give up was the main lesson. Winning battles is one thing, winning the war is something else.

By Susan, at 10/04/2010 8:14 PM
Am I the only one confused by Susan's quotes, or attributions? I thought Judge Nathaniel Niles died in the nineteenth century.

--Scott Meacham '95

By Scott, at 10/05/2010 3:32 PM
that Alpha said...

that Judge Nathaniel Niles said...

Alpha is the culprit. He uses Susan's email and the good Judge's name as a pseudonym. However, the Judge is his great-great-great-great-grandfather, hence the usage.

By Susan, at 10/05/2010 4:53 PM
that Alpha said...
that Judge Nathaniel Niles said...
I know that I am naive in computer usage, but finding the most up-to-date aoa blog is difficult. My screen shows everything but... I get in through 10/2/2007, and then scroll down to 2010/08/29. For other naive Dart alum to find this means that many Dart alum never see it.
If you are looking for the most recent blog, by the time you get to Goooo---gle screen #9, you give up. 10/2/2007 shows up again on screen #3. Then later at random, 2010/08/29 will show up on the first screen.

I have the feeling that a few of us are just talking to ourselves and spinning wheels, which of course the bureaucracy loves because nothing changes.

By Susan, at 10/06/2010 7:09 AM
that Alpha said...
that Judge Nathaniel Niles said...
O.K., I get it. Whatever posting for aoa blog comes up, I then click home, and the latest posting shows.

I wonder how many old alum know this?

By Susan, at 10/06/2010 11:34 AM
Al: Where you are within the blog pages (i.e. what date) depends on the link you use to open the page. Different links go directly to different places, not just to the top "home" page.

You can always click on the "Dartmouth Association of Alumni" in blue at the top, and once there click on "Home" in black. This will insure you are at the top and "current".

I am glad you are putting up comments. I hope younger people will take time to appreciate the wisdom that comes with age and not disregard your ideas simply because you are from the pre-computer generation. Imagine if we ignored all Enlightenment-era authors simply because they do not defend their ideas on blogs.

By Tim Dreisbach '71, at 10/06/2010 11:40 AM
Susan/Alpha/Niles said, "I have the feeling that a few of us are just talking to ourselves and spinning wheels, which of course the bureaucracy loves because nothing changes."

This is true here at this blog. John Mathias has graciously agreed to be the point man for the effort.

The real battle is being fought elsewhere and with more success,as you well know.

By DartBored, at 10/06/2010 1:16 PM
DartBored:

You are absolutely right that the real battle is being fought elsewhere. I am not quite as confident as you about "more success".

In your words, "Ha, Ha, Ha"

Best, Tim

By Tim Dreisbach '71, at 10/06/2010 3:54 PM
Tim: My error. I thought I was posting on the Hanover Community College blog. Elsewhere is far away.

By DartBored, at 10/06/2010 4:22 PM
Right. Even the College President participates on the Hanover College blog.

By Tim Dreisbach '71, at 10/06/2010 6:32 PM
Thanks, Tim. That's where I'm going in my next life. I couldn't find the word "alumni" anywhere on its website.

By DartBored, at 10/06/2010 6:55 PM
that Alpha said...
that Judge Nathaniel Niles said...

It is true but sad that the real work is not showing up on the alum blog. Assoc of Alum is not independent of the Alum office, and at the same time the Alum Council is not representative of the alum. The Council is a collection of individuals from regions, clubs, etc.; but we have been through that discussion many times.

Hanover College is not our model, but we might learn something from it. Probably not.

By Susan, at 10/06/2010 8:56 PM
"That didn't stop the trustees from imposing a new constitution, now did it?"

I thought the constitution now in force is a descendant of the constitution of 1891. Wasn't it recently amended by the required 2/3 majority vote? Maybe I am missing something again?

By Scott, at 10/08/2010 2:35 PM
I'm guessing that even among establishment alumni leadership, they felt a need to amend the constitution because of a "do something or else (even worse than eliminating parity) message" between the lines in the Trustees governance report. My poor memory recalls even hearing something like this from Bill Hutchinson or David Spalding when we were together on the Exec Committee.

By Tim Dreisbach '71, at 10/08/2010 4:55 PM
that Alpha said...
that Judge Nathaniel Niles said...

Not much activity on alum blog compared to dart blog. That's too bad. Anyway, Asch's report about Kim's talk before the Yale game was to the point. It was a lot easier to talk about the performing arts and the fine arts than about the liberal arts. Also, since Dartmouth is building a new performing and fine arts classroom. it was a good time to imply the importance of the continuing need to raise money. But nothing was really said about the liberal arts, and so Kim really did not deal with the issue.

Meanwhile, we get the self study report from the president and the report from the alum council. Again, the council is a collection of individuals representing regions and clubs; but it really doesn't represent the alum as alum.

By Susan, at 10/14/2010 5:10 PM
that Alpha said...
that Judge Nathaniel Niles said...

Of course, that is a performing arts and fine arts classroom BUILDING.
And of course, Niles is five generations back (great great great grandfather) for anyone interested in counting up genealogy.

By Susan, at 10/14/2010 6:02 PM
This place will be dead until the Alumni Council meets in early December and announces its selections for trustee. It will do nothing else important at the meeting. I'm hoping there will be a cash bar at least.

Meanwhile, keep reading Dartblog.com

By DartBored, at 10/14/2010 8:15 PM
that Alpha said...
that Judge Nathaniel Niles said...

As I was leaving the Manchester, N.H., airport, I bought a copy of the Union Leader newspaper. There was an article (10/14, pA8) about the bias suit against Dartmouth concerning the woman who was fired. She is a physician with ADHD (Attention Deficit Hyperactivity Disorder). The hospital had agreed to provide reasonable accommodations for her working there.
Regardless of the merits of the case, a $500,000 lawsuit against Dartmouth under the disability act sounds pretty expensive. Something went wrong, and more money is at stake (win or lose) to proceed with the trial.

By Susan, at 10/15/2010 6:11 AM
that Alpha says...
that Judge Nathaniel Niles...

Well, no one is writing or paying attention to assoc of alum blog any longer. The real action is dart blog and the daily dartmouth. They hit it right on the head about Kim's arts (not liberal arts) talk. I was there.

I have not seen any discussion about the suit against Dartmouth concerning the physician with disability.

By Susan, at 10/19/2010 6:35 AM
Please note the comments in the Letter by Trustees Rodgers and Robinson posted by Joe Asch on DartBlog earlier today.

By Tim Dreisbach '71, at 11/07/2010 4:55 PM
that Alpha says that Judge Nathaniel Niles

See comment under new posting of Dartm alum blog.

By Susan, at 11/08/2010 6:20 PM

Sunday, August 29, 2010

Dartblog Strikes Back!

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